Keeping a hand in licensing: Sue Lockey and Katy Rugman on The Puppet Company’s partnerships

So… Appropriately for a conversation about puppets, we’ve got a two-hander! Sue and Katy, welcome. I think the easiest way to get going is for you to introduce yourselves…
Sue Lockey: I’m Sue Lockey. I started The Puppet Company with my husband, Peter, way back when…

Katy Rugman: And I’m Sue and Peter’s daughter, Katy Rugman. I do product and marketing. We’re a UK-based, family-run business. We’re known for our dedication to quality, affordable puppets and soft toys – and deep commitment to our values… And at the moment we have over 800 products in our range.

Perfect! Let’s talk a little about the range before we get to your licensing and values… Remind me: what was it that drew me onto the stand at London Toy Fair? A classic sock puppet?
Sue: Yes, I think you saw one of the wacky ones; you saw one of the Sockettes…

The Sockettes? I thought that was a Motown band…
Katy: Ha! No, the Sockettes are our really colourful, stripey sock puppets! You also saw the crow and the red macaw, I think, which are classic lines. In fact, when we decided to take the plunge and start designing our own puppets, it was those birds that really drove it because they look wonderful and give teachers a hook…

A hook? How so?
Sue: The squawk, for example. The crow and the macaw have squeakers in their beaks. That lets teachers focus children’s attention on counting – say, how many squawks a bird does… And maybe they get the puppet to make a mistake and only count three when they should have counted four! Then the children can correct the puppet.

Katy: She’s such a teacher!

It’s unbelievable, Katy! In 30 seconds, your mum’s got more fun and education out of a puppet than I would’ve in an hour! So is that always in mind? What you can do with the puppet?
Sue: Absolutely yes! It’s the educational values – whether it be language enrichment or putting across a particular skill – that are so important. Hence we cover the whole spectrum: from little finger puppets and hand puppets to a full-body puppet. Some have working mouths; some don’t because it doesn’t fit the character’s structure. But they appeal to a huge age range… They can be used with newborns right the way through. I’ve used puppets in my mum’s old people’s home. I took in a playful puppy puppet – they loved it! A puppet brings a lovely joy for everybody once you buy into it.

And the educational value can be indirect, presumably?
Sue: Yes. When we say they’re quite educationally orientated, we mean that – with our products – you can see the meaning of what children or adults could do with them. The RSPB Bug Hotel is a good example…

There you want children to learn about nature and give teachers and parents knowledge to use. For example, to have respect for living creatures; to learn about insects and not to just squash bugs. We’re also introducing a Hibernation House in the autumn… It’s a little family of hedgehogs: mum, dad, and a little one. That introduces you to a family and the concept of hibernation which is such a lovely topic to teach children.

So you’ve mentioned education… What else is important?
Katy: One thing we always say is “As accessible and affordable as possible” Because we try and do our products across the spectrum for every type of person and for every type of budget. But the quality and the safety testing are hands down our number one priority. We manage to keep the prices accessible, though, because we buy in such huge volumes. And we’ve worked with some of our factories – like the one that produces the crow puppet I mentioned – for over 20 years.

We’re going to talk about your early days shortly, but – in relation to that –this is a big enterprise, isn’t it? You’ve grown tremendously?
Katy: Well, yes. We’ve got offices and six warehouses here in Hertfordshire as well as warehouses in America and a network of agents and distributors across Europe and beyond. And beyond safety and product testing, something else I consider a value is the environment… Everything we do is as sustainable as possible. Of our 800 or so items, I think we’ve only got three that are actually in packaging. Everything else is either by itself or in just a single wrapping; a biodegradable bag.

And one thorny question for a lot of companies is about the commitment to using recycled materials as well as recyclable… Do I need to skirt that here?!
Katy: No, not at all! Many of our products are made from up to 99% recycled materials. Keep in mind that we’ve worked with some of the largest conservation charities… We’ve worked with the Natural History Museum, the RSPB and the World Wide Fund for Nature, so everything we do is as sustainable as possible. We even had the German Ecolabel Blue Angel Sustainability rating for our WWF ranges – I think we were the only UK toy company to have that and one of only three in Europe. So everything is safety and sustainably tested to the nth degree.

Amazing! Let’s talk about licensing… We’ve discussed some of your business values. Does that reach into licenses as well? Which boxes do licenses need to tick for you to work with them?
Katy: I would say they’ve got to have some tradition to them, or have that lovely warmth that Paddington and Elmer have, for example… That sense of heritage – or education, of course. In fact a good example of an educational property is a new partner – we’ve now got Numberblocks! One other factor we consider is price… We didn’t want to go into licensing with really expensive products, so we design everything to be as accessible as possible. That’s important to us. Our little Elmer finger puppets retail at £6.99…

Very keen price! I’m curious then, do you need to look very carefully for new licenses?
Sue: No, they’ve always come to us! We’ve never gone searching. And we’ve said no to quite a few. Initially, that was because we were new to the licensing world and we didn’t want to tread on anyone’s toes… And, as I said, we tend to favour well-established properties or properties with a strong learning or educational component.

Katy: And we were very hesitant about licensing in the first place – partly because dad was very cautious about it, and partly because my background means I’ve seen how much time and commitment it can involve, both in establishing a partnership and on the distribution side.

But you’ve now dipped your toe into licensing … Did your personal experience, Katy, drive the latest partnership?
Katy: The Natural History Museum is technically my baby, yes. We’ve worked with them for years to supply dinosaur puppets for their gift shops. But we went to their stand at BLE a few years ago and, starting from an introductory conversation with the then licensing manager, we eventually got a full licensing deal for their puppets and their plush.

They look great!
Katy: Thank you! We’re really pleased with them. Our other licenses are all puppets, but the Natural History Museum asked us to start with plush. Now, our sister business is Wilberry Toys – and Wilberry makes soft toys! That meant we could combine the two offerings for the Natural History Museum.

And was that deal in the works for a while?
Katy: Yes, it took a long time to get the products right because we wanted them to be scientifically accurate! These toys are palaeontologist approved! Another license we have is with the RSPB. A wonderful customer: we’ve worked with them for quite a while now. That began as a collaboration and is now a license.

And when you say you’ve worked with them for quite a while, it’s worth mentioning that 2026 is your 25th anniversary. Have you any plans for the 25th? What’s in the pipeline?
Katy: As well as the Numberblocks launch and another amazing launch later this year, I want to build a bit more of an online community and share the new product. We’re not known for doing great big sales pitches and parties, but we are throwing a party this summer. You know, some of our employees have been with us for over 20 years – they’re like family!

Now, as it happens – because of the way the business started – we don’t have an actual date for the anniversary. When my dad first got poorly, though – around the 21st anniversary – he said he wanted to celebrate it on his birthday: July 31st. So we’re sticking with that! Beyond that, this year is about us tying together all the good stuff we’ve been doing and building on, and letting people know we’re out there!

And why’s that necessary, Katy? Why don’t more people already know about The Puppet Company, Puppets by Post and Wilberry?
Katy: That’s a good question! You know, someone once said to us, “You’re the biggest toy company I’ve never heard of.” And I would say that’s true for a lot of people… It’s just never seemed like the right time to be blowing our trumpet. Which is a shame, because over the years mum, dad and the company have done amazing things – and masses for charity and education!

Those values have always been there… We often say, “Purpose over profit!” And since dad passed away, the yardstick is always, ‘Oh, dad would’ve hated that…’ So we’ve turned down a lot of different licenses that felt like they would’ve been taken on for the wrong reasons. It’s part of our own heritage and history.

That links very nicely to you then, Sue. How did all this come about?
Sue: Our beginnings were incredibly humble! We’re going back to 1976, when Peter and I met at teacher-training college. I was early-years focused – three to seven-year-olds… Peter was focusing on secondary art with ceramics, woodwork and painting as his main subjects. We got together four years later – in 1980, the wedding bells rang – and a few years after that the children started coming along.

And out of interest, are the others also in the business?
Sue: Yes. Sam is the eldest – he’s our sales director. Katy was in the middle, then the youngest is Joe… He’s our technical director. Our youngest daughter Hannah is an Early Years Teacher. But it was Katy – aged about three or four – that had an interest in creative storytelling. Well, with Peter and I both on teaching salaries, which were very minimal, Peter decided to make a beautiful puppet theatre. I’ll send you a picture…

Please do! What was it like? A Punch and Judy style theatre?
Sue: Yes, but on a base where the sides hinged in so you could store it. However, when we looked around to buy puppets, they were very few and far between! We really struggled sourcing them. We managed to get a few, and they weren’t particularly exciting, but the seeds had grown. Quite soon, friends that came to Katy’s birthday parties started asking if we could make these theatres – just not on that scale. So that’s how we started: a little cottage industry in the kitchen, which we called the Tabletop Theatre Company.

Love it!
Sue: We’ve got photos of all this somewhere, and templates and things. Meanwhile, I’d make the curtains , and we were exhibiting at little craft fairs and a few music festivals. Back then, the interest was there for these little pop-up shops… On the run-up to Christmas, there was a place called The Galleria, which was quite close to Peter’s parents… They were heavily involved because his family’s background was retail: they had handbag and leather shops.

And how did they help? Were they craft people?
Sue: No, but they helped with the child minding and running the stand when we couldn’t do everything. Then, in the year 2000, when it was all going quite nicely, Peter went roller blading and broke his leg spectacularly! Fortunately, he was wearing his helmet and protectors, but he still broke his tibia and fibula and needed pins and plates and fixing in hospital for months. During this time, we could see that interest had grown in what we were doing – and there was a gap in the market…

We realised this because we were still buying in most of the puppets from companies like Fiesta Crafts and Dowman – sadly no longer around. But we were getting interest from teachers who could see the potential, and we were promoting their use in the classroom. Anyway, just when we were thinking of doing a catalogue, we were told that we actually lived in the age of the internet and that we should do a website… That made sense since we didn’t then have to worry about prices or images changing, ranges going out of stock – any of that. And so in 2001, we started this little website, puppetsbypost.com.

Puppets By Post!
Sue: We still exhibited at places like Glastonbury, though. We used to sell a lot of puppets at music festivals… We’d get people in the later hours of the evening come across to us with their beer saying, “I’ve got cold hands. Give me something; a glove.” Because a lot of them thought we were selling gloves. We actually did quite well there!

And at what point did you start working in the business, Katy?
Katy: Strictly speaking I came on staff in my 20s, but from about 11 or 12 I was very keen to get involved. When my dad broke his leg, I went to help in Glastonbury… We were in a caravan. I was cooking and helping out! And then, when mum and dad first did the website, I used to come home from school and help process people’s orders…

Sue: We were so IT unprepared!

Katy: …then I’d help pick and pack the orders and go with my mum to the post office. Later, I worked here in school holidays, and right through my uni days. That said, I really wanted to go off and do something else before thinking about joining the family business. So I left eventually and went into licensing. I worked on Hello Kitty and Mr. Men and a number of other properties. I later went into marketing and communications but then started planning to come back here.

What eventually got you back?
Katy: Well, I was meant to come back at the beginning of March 2020. I had my letter of resignation ready… And then Covid hit. And my dad said, “I don’t know how this is going to go… Stay put.” So I stayed where I was while everything got worse and worse and worse. I was in lockdown from early on because I worked for a Japanese company. But then I remember phoning my mum and dad and saying: “I don’t know how this is going to go, but if I’m going to bank on a company coming out of this, I’m banking on puppets.”

Oh, really?! So you came back during the pandemic?
Katy: Yes. I started here properly in the July of 2020. I was here doing marketing, PR, communications…. Then, sadly, my dad got diagnosed with his brain tumour on New Year’s Eve, 2020. So I’d been relearning the business for around six months, we got the news – and then he passed away six months after that. So my siblings and I were with my mum looking after him, and then Sam, Joe and Kerri were keeping the business going after lockdown…

Oh, gosh; I’m so sorry…
Sue: Thank you. Having my wonderful family’s support made a very tough time a lot easier to manage.

Yes, of course…
Katy: It was awful. But because I was so new, I could take more time off. Sam, Joe and Kerri – our operations director – and everyone basically kept the business going as we were coming out of lockdown. I was still doing the marketing and the relationship side of things, but then my job role grew because I started doing product development and design with mum… That’s what my dad had been doing. And that was when the licensing side started really growing.

I mean, before I rejoined, they’d started on the Elmer license and Paddington was in the background. So my role has changed massively, but it’s probably all the bits that I would’ve done. It’s just that I would’ve been working with my dad on product designs, going to the trade fairs in China to do all the buying and stuff – and everything has changed… But it’s still going, and everyone is finding new ways, I think, of moving it all forwards.

Well, I can see how awful this is – it sounds like losing Peter turned every aspect of your lives upside down. I’m so, so sorry for that loss….
Sue: Oh, thank you…

In terms of the structure of the business – excuse me; I’m very choked up. Um, in terms of the structure of the business…
Katy: …it’s been a bit weird – because when you start talking about the business, it’s all so intertwined. Everything… So over the last five years, our whole lives have changed as well as the company…

Oh, I can only imagine. And I understand now why your license with Hope means so much to you…
Katy: Yes! Although that’s not so much a license as a partnership. Hope is a special Sockette that was designed with The Brain Tumour Charity. We had the idea to tie a puppet in with them so that we could use that to raise money. For every one of those we sell, we donate a pound to them. That’s now selling around the world; it’s already raised thousands of pounds. I’m hoping it’s going to take off more because we’ll support that charity for the rest of our lives.

Amazing. Alright… We need to wrap this up, sadly, but thank you for that. I appreciate your sharing it. To finish, let me ask you one question – but you can each have an answer… What’s the one question I could have asked you today but didn’t?
Sue: Oh! WHY?

Katy: Ooh!

Together: Why?

Hello! Was that in stereo?

Together: I was going to say why…

Ha! What’s happening?! Is this a party trick?!
Katy: No! Ha! I think we were just both going to say, ‘Why puppets?’

Katy: I had ‘why puppets’ in my head, and I couldn’t work out what the answer would be other than: ‘They’re lovely!’

So “Why puppets?” is what you would both want to ask? Wow! I love that. That was like a proper mum and daughter moment. And Sue, what’s your answer?
Sue: Doing those first children’s parties, Peter had built that lovely big theatre because we couldn’t afford entertainers when other children were coming… And he’d be round the back operating the puppets; I’d have written a story for Katy’s birthday – and it was the engagement. All these children sitting there watching with their mouths open! And then Harriet Hedgehog would say, “Oh, now it’s time to go and wash your hands because we’re going to have party food!” And there’d be this influx of children rushing to the sink because the puppet had told them to!

That engagement is extraordinary…
Sue: It really is, and it’s a bit of a cliché – but yes: it’s the power of puppets; that’s why. Also, it’s a real legacy that we want and need to keep for Peter. It’s such an important part of our journey. I’d like to think he’d be very proud of how far we have come since those early days.

It’s the power of puppets! And right at the last knockings, you’ve written the headline, ‘The Power of Puppets.’ Thank you both again for joining me – lovely!