Actor and writer Jo Martin on how her novel – The Kaleidoscope – fits into Doctor Who: Circuit Breaker

Jo Martin! Actor. Author. Pioneer. Doctor! Which of those monikers does it most excite you to talk about?
Oh, my goodness! Any and all of the above! It’s all a very exciting part of the rich tapestry of being a creative if you’re lucky enough to get the opportunities to do these things – and I do know how lucky I am. I’ve been chipping away in the business for a long time, and I’m having a good career. I do know what it can be like… All the scrambling, you know? Thank God I’ve not experienced too much of that – since I hit my late 30; I’ve just been continuously working really.

Brilliant. Now, I must confess, I’m only a casual Doctor Who fan, so I think –
Oh, no; I’m not having it! What do you mean “casual?”

Ha! Well, no… Ha!
I’m not into casual! How dare you! I’m going to change your mind…

Ha! Wait!
No, let’s go!

Ha! Wait! Ah, dear… You shouldn’t get me laughing. Ha! I’m a terrible giggler. Oh, dear!
Stop the giggling. Let’s go.

Okay… I’m composed. What I was going to say, as a casual fan, is that I was excited, a few years ago, to see a couple of young Black girls playing Doctor Who – and they WERE the Doctor; they were being you. You must be thrilled to think about that?
Oh, wow… Super thrilled! I really did grow up with Doctor Who; I used to dress up my cousins in tin foil – they had to be the Daleks! And I would fashion some kind of costume for myself and play the Doctor. And they’d be like, “Okay, now it’s my turn to be the Doctor. You have to be a Dalek.” And I’d always say, “Nah, nah, nah! I want to be the Doctor.” And they’d be like, “You can’t be a doctor, you’re a girl.”

Because this predates Jodie Whittaker…
Right. Back then, the show had a long tradition of white males in that role, so it really was wonderful that we got Jodie. But, as you can imagine, I never saw myself represented – and to be seen is so important. So to be standing on set the day when I had to say, “Hello, I’m the Doctor…” Well. I mean, we had to retake that a few times because I’d get really choked up… I could see that little girl in me.

Oh, wow. That must be hugely important because, obviously, the show wasn’t as inclusive when we were growing up…
But now it is – and, of course, the fans have always been very inclusive. So to have that acknowledgment from Brazil to America, from France to Australia – from Aboriginal girls sending me a message – means a lot. It’s great to be able to cosplay as someone without anyone look being able to look at them and say, “Well, you can’t be wearing that.” You know? The girls can dress up as Jodie or anybody else; they can be who they like. And then, as a Black child, you can look on me and go, “You know what? I could do this.” Because Doctor Who is for everyone.

Well, Jo, two minutes ago, you had me crying with laughter, but I really welled up when you said how choked up you got delivering that line. I can only imagine; it must mean so much to so many.
It really does, because we all struggle with loving ourselves, don’t we? So it’s a lifelong journey… We have two voices on our shoulders: “You’re rubbish.” “Oh, you’re good.” “You can do it.” “No, you can’t.” We’ve all got those thoughts. But when you don’t see yourself represented, you really start to think, “Well, I need to be something else.”

To what degree does that weigh on you?
It doesn’t weigh on me, but I carry it – happily. You know? I happily carry it, because it’s a part of my job in the world we live in. And to have this opportunity to push a different narrative – I’m over the moon. It’s a gift.

Perfect! Let’s talk about your writing. As part of the multimedia brand extension for Doctor Who: Circuit Breaker, you’ve authored a novel called The Kaleidoscope. What can you tell us about that, Jo?
Um – that I really hope everyone’s going to enjoy it! Ha! I’m dipping my toe into writing a sci-fi novel, which I’ve never done before. I’ve always written, but I’ve written plays. I wrote one about a netball team called Shoot to Win. That went on at the Theatre Royal, Stratford East. It also went on at the Yorkshire Playhouse before it went on tour. After that, I did it in New York.

That’s about ten years ago now. And various drama schools put it on sometimes. They’ll give me a call, and I’ll go down and see what they’re doing. It’s wonderful. And actually, I also write comedy for stand-ups and sketch shows. A long time ago, I had a show on Radio 4 called The Airport, which I wrote a lot of stuff for. So I’ve always written.

What is it about writing that appeals?
I can come up with things; I’m very interested in character and plot lines. But I’ve also had some really great editors, one of whom – MG Harris – has written books. She’s guided, advised and supported me… It’s nice to have someone to bounce off about where we want see this Doctor… So we lean into a bit of the Fugitive Doctor’s heritage; the fact that she’s a Black woman. We’ve gone into what happened when she left Gallifrey – we’ve also gone to Jamdown, my dear! So we’re in Jamaica in some of the story.

I’ll also just say that it’s very fast-paced and that we’ve tried to inject a lot of that Doctor sarcasm and humour into it. But also diving into what’s behind that – because we all mask, don’t we? And I think that, on TV, we haven’t seen the vulnerable side; we haven’t seen the Doctor that questions herself, or the Doctor that wonders, “Have I done the right thing?” The Doctor who has regret… What’s beyond the ‘I know what I’m doing. It’s this, it’s that…’ You know? So it’s been really interesting to lean more into her vulnerable side – although she’s still got that sassy side and the hard line.

And how does the actual kaleidoscope fit in with the rest of Circuit Breaker?
Quite early on, I knew I wanted a child’s game to take us into the story – and I came up with the kaleidoscope. I thought it would be great if that was one of the pieces that has to be found – but maybe James can speak to that – James Page is the orchestrator of Circuit Breaker.

Oh! That’s the James on this call?! Why am I wasting my time talking to you, Jo?!
Ha!

James – join us! How much are you allowed to tell us about how the kaleidoscope fits in with the rest of Circuit Breaker?
James Page, Brand Manager, Doctor Who, BBC Studios: Well, the overarching plot is that the Fugitive Doctor’s been called to the Black Archive to help take a number of objects back to where they belong in time and space. They’re objects that don’t belong there – and each of these things is something that Doctor Who fans will recognise – except the kaleidoscope! That’s the only object fans won’t recognise because it’s connected to the Fugitive Doctor.

Oh, that was a great summary! I’m all in on this. And this is your vision, James?
James: Well, I was working very closely with a brilliant author called Esmie Jikiemi-Pearson… The two of us brainstormed up that idea. Then we got Jo on board – and we’ve been running from there ever since.

Jo: When they were talking to me about it, I was thinking, ‘Oh, my God! It’s going to be a book. It’s going to be a mobile game. It’s going to be a website. It’s going to be an audio drama. It’s going to be a comic… And all around my Fugitive Doctor. I’m loving this!’ But when they said, “Would you want to write one of the books?” I thought they were mad! Ha! But I thought about it, and then I spoke to my family. They were very encouraging… My son is a big Whovian.

Is he though, Jo? Or is he too scared to say he’s a casual fan?!
Ha! No, he’s a massive fan. He’s 19 now; he’s watched all episodes of Doctor Who… I’ve had to put his name in the book because he helped work out who would be my nemesis. Is it this? Is it that? Talking through who had the most juice to give us in this book. So he’d tell me, “Mum, I think you should go this way!” and we’d brainstorm over dinner – which was really fun.

You touch on something that really intrigues me. It’s very rare for a Doctor Who actor to write a novel for their own character… But then with the – um – timey-wimey nature of the franchise – sorry; I was going to do an impression of John Hurt when I said that! I lost confidence at the last second!
Oh, you should. Let’s hear the voice!

“Timey what? Timey-wimey?”
My God! For a casual Doctor Who fan, that’s very good!

Ha! Wait ’til you hear my Brian Blessed! But my question was going to be: given the timey-wimey nature of the franchise, and that you know where your character’s got to go more than where she came from, how much of that is on your mind when you write? And how much of it is in the edit?
Oh, there’s a lot of jigging about. I think we were free the very start – I was coming up with whatever I wanted just to get everything down. Later, you start getting input from people who know more of the Doctor Who world than I do: my son and the editors. They’d say the Doctor really has to do this or that, or that something’s not going to work because of whatever. So certain things we had to edit and cut. Mostly, though, things could be made to happen because of the – as you said – timey-wimey. The timey-wimey means you can find a lot of different ways to serve the character and serve the story.

Beautifully put. Let me ask you this, Jo: What’s the one question I could’ve asked you today but didn’t?
Oh my gosh! That’s something I have to think about. Wow! I can tell you the one question that everyone always asks that you haven’t…

Let’s go with that!
“Are you going to be on the TV version again?” Either that or, “Do you want to be the next Doctor?” That’s the question… And I always say to people, “What kind of question is that?!” Ha! Because of course the answer is YES! I’m not going to tell them no, am I?!

No – that’s why I didn’t ask! Ha!
But joking aside, she’s such a great character to play – it’s a job that just keeps on giving.

And I’m curious: when you auditioned, did you know it was for the Fugitive Doctor?
No, no! And if I’d known, I reckon I wouldn’t have got the job.

Oh? Tell me!
For years, my son had seen all my friends doing guest appearances on Doctor Who… He’d been pressuring me; he’s like, “How come you never get a part on that?” So when I got the call saying I got an audition, I told him straight away – totally unaware that it was for a Black incarnation of the Doctor. Obviously, they can’t tell everyone exactly what they’re auditioning for because the story will get out. Even so, my son was like, “Mum, you better get this job!”

Ha! Do you know how you came to their attention?
It turns out that they were big fans of a show I was doing at the time. I was playing an incompetent parole officer in a show called Back to Life. You can still catch it; it’s on BBC iPlayer and Netflix. So yes: they were fans of Back to Life with Daisy Haggard. Daisy’s the wonderful actress who also wrote the show, and she wrote me a wonderful part! Quite what made the Doctor Who producers think I could be the Doctor based off that, I don’t know!

No; I wouldn’t see you and think, ‘Oh, that funny, energetic person is perfect for the brooding, enigmatic Fugitive Doctor.’
Right? “There she is. There she is! Get her in!” Then again, Back to Life was a dark comedy… It wasn’t like one of those canned-laughter sitcoms. Anyway, when I got the Doctor Who script, I did wonder why my character – presented to me as a tour guide – ended up flying a spaceship! But I thought maybe that was some sort of flashback or a dream. So I played it out – then boom! I got a call saying I’d got the job a few days later.

God, no wonder it meant so much when you finally got to say you were the Doctor! James, have you got all the dates there? When does Circuit Breaker launch?
James: Well, our Doctor Who website has a signed-in experience which takes the form of an in-universe experience. So the site allows you to become a member of UNIT, which is looking after the Black Archive. Once you’re in this in-universe experience, the first Circuit Breaker story launches on there on June 25th… That’s written by Esmie Jikiemi-Pearson; it’s about two characters, Osgood – whom fans know and love – and her new assistant, Andrew, calling upon the Fugitive Doctor to help them. Then, between June 25th and the end of September, the projects are all coming out – there’re 12 in total.

12! It’s an opus! And Jo’s book?
James: Jo’s book is out on September 3rd.

September 3rd. Amazing. I’m going to upgrade from casual fan to smart-casual for this…
Jo: I’ll be judging that. I’ll simply be observing you from now on.

Okay… This has taken a sinister turn! Ha! Alright… Well, what can I say? Jo – thank you, you’ve been a joy. You as well, James – thank you! What a great vision you have for this brand.
James: Thank you, Deej.

Jo: Thank you!