Why Guinness pie caught the eye of Declan Hassett – Senior Licensing Manager at Diageo

Declan, let’s get the admin out of the way… Who are you, and what do you do?
I’m Declan Hassett. I’m the Senior Licensing Manager with Diageo, the world’s largest premium alcohol business. I work across all our brands around the globe. In short, anywhere you see a Diageo brand appearing on a food product, that will have passed through my hands.

And for the uninitiated, which brands would that include?
If you think of any brand in the spirits category, we probably have a market leader in there. So our brands include Johnny Walker in whisky, Smirnoff and Ketel One in Vodka, Tanqueray and Gordons in gin, Captain Morgan in rum… We’ve also got the world’s best-selling liqueur and original Irish cream, Baileys. And, of course, Guinness – our iconic beer.

Perfect. And Guinness recently partnered on two things that caught my eye… A steak and Guinness pie with Higgidy and a cake with Finsbury Foods. What else is keeping you busy?
In the UK market, I spend much of my time on Guinness and Baileys, which – luckily for me – are two passion projects. I love both brands and get to work out of St. James’s Gate Brewery in Dublin, Ireland… Who wouldn’t want to do that?!

While Baileys and Guinness lead our licensing portfolio, our global program is diverse and tailored to market relevance. For example, Bundaberg Rum in Australia is an extensive programme for that market. Meanwhile, Black & White scotch whisky has been in the portfolio for many years and continues to evolve. Black & White is a licensed, super-premium golf brand in Asia. We’re also expanding into new sectors, including fashion.

Fashion? Tell me a little about that…
Just last week, we launched a fashion brand called True in Colombia; a Smirnoff True capsule collection. It’s built around the theme of ‘love is a great mixer’, increasing cultural connection with our target market.

Fantastic. And what is it you’re looking for in a partner?
We start with brand strategy. We look at licensing as part of the marketing toolbox, enabling our brands to reach new consumers, increase awareness and drive cross-category purchasing. We’ll look at where we feel there is cultural relevance and synergy – not just for Diageo, but also for the potential partner. It has to work for both parties. In food, we want products that are delicious, and high quality. So it’s not about novelty: It’s about creating something people want to come back to.

Yes, and I guess, in that respect, you’ve got to avoid rather obvious stunts… Anything else?
Shared values and passion matter. We look for partners with quality manufacturing, strong routes to market and a genuine desire to create something great. We work with everyone from Unilever and Lir Chocolates to Gardiners, the Scottish fudge company.

And in terms of the pie partnership with Higgidy, why did that make sense?
Oh, because who could resist?! It’s just the most obvious thing: a pie and a pint! Such a natural, wonderful combination. Personally, I love a pie… And depending on which part of Ireland you come from, nearly every family has a recipe for brown bread – and a lot of them use Guinness. In fact, Guinness is used in cooking and baking an awful lot. Even Nigella Lawson’s Guinness Chocolate Cake is a fan favourite.

Let’s talk about cake! In my head, Guinness has such a distinct taste that I wouldn’t think to connect it with chocolate…
One of the major distinctive factors of Guinness is that we’re the only brewery of scale that roasts our own barley for brewing beer. And I don’t know if you’ve ever seen barley being roasted, but it’s a very similar process to coffee roasting… In all, about 10% of our grist comes from the roasted barley. At 232°C, the barley blackens and gives Guinness its distinct roasted-coffee chocolate notes.

Those flavour profiles go with chocolate really well – it’s a fantastic combination! So we’re thrilled to be able to showcase all that in a chocolate cake which people can use for celebrating and gifting and sharing love with each other. It’s a really great way for us to do it and to be able to talk about it.

You’re clearly enormously passionate about this. I love what you said about “distinct roasted-coffee chocolate notes.” But how do you make sure those notes aren’t overwhelmed by the partner product? The pie, for example?
It’s a little bit art and a little bit science. We want products that deliver a genuine Guinness experience, not just in taste, but also in quality, packaging and emotional connection… It needs to have enough of that signature of Guinness and the flavours I’ve spoken about. It absolutely must deliver that genuine Guinness experience.

Great answer. And does that mean that people brought you different samples during this process? Are you the person sitting there with the final word on how it tastes? “No, it needs more Guinness!”
I am that person, yes! But I have to stress that Diageo has incredible experts all over the world, so I’m just leaning in on that expertise. It’s my decision eventually, but only after all the expertise has made the product great in the first place. In the end, my final test is, “Will I be happy to take this product home to my mother and show her what I’ve done?”! The point is that no matter what you do, you need to be proud of it.

Perfect! I love that! Let me ask you this: are there any brands in your portfolio that you think are somewhat ‘untapped’?
We’ve got a portfolio of amazing brands – and my personal belief is that we could create a licensing programme that enhances each one of them. I think the business probably understands the power of licensing now more than ever before… I also think one of the issues the licensing industry has is its awareness within the marketing world. To the best of my knowledge, there’s not a marketing or business college course anywhere that includes licensing. I could be wrong, but if there are some, there can’t be many…

That said, part of our role at Diageo is to help brands and organisations understand the power of licensing, and the difference it can make to the bottom line – especially at the moment. We’re all looking to grow volume and value, and licensing can do that for a brand without the need for capital expenditure or lengthy product development costs.

And are there any examples of this about which you can talk?
One I mentioned earlier comes to mind – the Smirnoff x True collaboration in Columbia. It’s our first fashion collaboration in that market and it shows where we are heading. But again, everything must be rooted in brand strategy. That’s really important.

Perfect. I’ll pop a picture of some of the True range in here. And am I right in saying that you’re celebrating 20 years at Diageo? What keeps you there?
Deej, I can honestly say that – in my 20 years here – I could probably count on one hand the number of days I’ve got up in the morning and not looked forward to my job. I get do amazing things! Can you imagine being able to help create a steak and Guinness pie with a company like Higgidy? I mean, it’s hardly work. Don’t tell my boss I said that! Ha!

Ha! How did you get into licensing, Declan?
Like nearly everybody I’ve met, I stumbled into it. My background was originally the food industry. I actually studied marketing in college, then worked for a German flavour company. After that, I was working in ingredients with a family business here in Ireland. Then I saw a job advertised for Baileys. They were looking for somebody with experience in the flavour industry…

So! I ended up working in procurement – buying the ingredients for Baileys. Working in procurement was amazing… It’s a tough job, but I learned so many negotiating and business skills; skills which I think made me much better at my current job than I would’ve been.

And did Diageo already have a licensing Division at that time?
Yes, it was based in Los Angeles and the role came up there. They wanted someone who understood Baileys and Guinness and had a food-industry background. When I showed my boss the job spec, she said, “Was this written for you?”

Ha!
When I applied, I had no idea what licensing was or what I was supposed to be doing. I did get some really good advice on the first day, though. Mark Sands, now Global Head of Innovation, interviewed me… He said, “Baileys is loved by more people around the world than any other spirit. But they always forget about Baileys…”

Oh!
“…so if you can get the Baileys brand onto anything and into stores, it’ll help us sell more Baileys.” That simplicity stuck with me. And then – to me – that became licensing. Of course, we’ve since learned a lot about how it delivers experience and value, but yes – that’s how I got into it.

Fantastic! I’ve enjoyed speaking with you enormously, Declan. Thank you! I hope you’ll come back and do it again.