Bagpuss is back! Threewise’s Michael Ford reveals how Britain’s best-loved cat is heading for the big screen

Let’s, Michael Ford, you and I talk about Bagpuss – surely the most loved saggy-old cloth cat in the world! For those that don’t know it, how do you sum up the original show?
Bagpuss was a TV show of 13 episodes made in 1974 and set in the early 1900s. It was the story of an unusual shop that didn’t sell anything… Sat sleeping in the window of the shop was Bagpuss – as you say, a saggy-old cloth cat – belonging to a little girl called Emily. That’s how the show began and it was, essentially, Toy Story before Toy Story.

It was Toy Story before Toy Story! Great pitch!
Thank you! And Emily was a finder of lost things. She’d bring them to the shop window, recite a verse and trot off to bed. Then Bagpuss and his friends would wake up and try to work out what it was Emily had brought them. Finally, through stories, they’d theorise about the object and – in the process – fix it, recycle it and put it back in the window in the hope of reuniting it with whoever had lost it.

Perfect! It’s one of the sweetest shows ever made… And in terms of its execution, it was mainly stop-motion, was it not?
Yes, although it was a real mix of animation styles. The main characters were done with stop motion. But there were elements of real puppetry in there. For example: when Gabriel the Toad sang and played the banjo, he was filmed in real time using traditional puppetry.

Similarly, when Bagpuss had thought bubbles or imagined things, those stories were brought to life in different animation styles. Sometimes that was with cardboard cutouts. At others, it was with traditional, hand-drawn illustrations. So it was a real celebration of animation which gave artists a platform to create some of those sequences. And not just Oliver Postgate and Peter Firmin who produced it, but other brilliant artists as well.

Fantastic. So this begs a question: whom do you now see as the Bagpuss audience?
Well, the reality is that the show was made over 50 years ago. Even so, I think Bagpuss is known by most households in Britain. It’s not yet as well known internationally as say Paddington, but we do get people talking about it all over the world. If you look on internet forums, it’s amazing how Bagpuss gets engagement. For example, the show cameoed in The Crown on Netflix! A lot of Americans were looking it up online after that to see what it was they’d seen Princess Diana watching on television.

We also had some lovely feedback at BLE with people having their pictures taken with the mascot. And youngish men – guys in their twenties – would stop at the stand and tell us how they loved it. They’d discovered it on Nick Jr.’s classics strand between 2004 and 2010 in the UK. They watched it with their mums and dads, or their aunt or whoever, alongside other shows from Smallfilms such as The Clangers, as well as fellow British classics like Paddington and The Wombles… But now, of course, now they can watch it with their kids on Amazon Prime and ITVX here in the UK.

Before we talk about some of the challenges of refreshing the brand, Michael, how did you come to be involved with Bagpuss?
When Luna Luo and I launched Threewise as a kids and family company five years ago, we were looking for characters and intellectual property that we loved and felt we could breathe new life into. And like everybody in Britain, I’d grown up with Bagpuss… And, you know, Bagpuss comes up a lot when you think about classic shows that have never been brought back. Personally, I assumed that was because it was impossible to get hold of; that it was locked up in the BBC vault! So it was on my mind, and then – long story short – another producer in the industry very, very generously introduced me to Daniel Postgate.

Oh, wow! The son of Oliver Postgate? One of the original creators?
One and the same! And Daniel was sent my treatment for a Bagpuss movie. We said we wanted to bring Bagpuss back on the big screen in a Paddington-style motion picture. That was our initial proposal. And speaking to him for the first time, he explained that he’d fended off a lot of approaches over the years, because people seemed to just want Bagpuss in name only… So I was braced for a no. But then he said he’d read the treatment and thought it was really good – happily, he was full of praise.

That must’ve been a wonderful moment. What made him warm to your approach, specifically?
He said that, in his mind, we’d solved the problem of bringing an elderly and sedentary character into the modern day without taking away what made them who they are. So Daniel loved our proposal and was not only interested in granting us what we wanted but also in working with us to bring Bagpuss back. So that’s how we became the production studio for the next incarnation of Bagpuss on screen as well as the global heritage licensing partner, overseeing both the classic heritage and new legacy.

Amazing! What a difference it makes when you understand the IP! Now, in terms of products, I’ve just done an interview with two of the Warmies folk… People can read that here. What other irons are in the fire?
So Warmies is one of the historical licensees that we inherited from the previous licensing partner along with the home entertainment Blu-ray and DVD collection. There wasn’t a vast amount else… There’s gift-shop product at The Beaney Museum in Canterbury which is where the Bagpuss and Smallfilms collection sits. There’s also another long-standing partnership between Bagpuss and Hospices of Hope – they have a Bagpuss Children’s Hospice Appeal that has been raising money for sick children for over 20 Years

Oh? Like the G.O.S.H. arrangement with Peter Pan?
Yes, where Oliver Postgate donated money to build a Bagpuss Children’s Hospice Wing, and then Oliver Postgate and Peter Firmin together granted some fundraising rights to Hospices of Hope. They’re allowed to use the character as their children’s mascot and support their fundraising efforts. But a big part of what we’re aiming to do is instil an ethos of quality on everything; improve and enhance things that already exist and make sure new things are the best they can be. We’ve done one licensing deal since we’ve taken over which was with Character Wear for a range of apparel but there are some big things now starting to line up on the horizon…

Apparel?
Right – a small range of kidult apparel; nostalgia tee shirts and the like. They’re selling online now and in their Television & Movie Stores across the UK. But really, this year’s mainly been about clearing the decks for a new range of licensing that reaches a standard befitting Bagpuss’s classic heritage. Because although Bagpuss isn’t currently as big as some of those iconic heritage brands, we think British audiences see him in the same strata as Peter Rabbit, Winnie the Pooh, Paddington and Moomins… Even though many of those are literary properties and Bagpuss is a ‘television first’ treasure.

This is why we wanted to make Bagpuss more prominent at this year’s BLE. So he had a dedicated stand for the first time ever and he was in the character parade for the first time ever. Really, our job is to return him to full national and international consciousness… We’re looking for Bagpuss to be everywhere you’d expect a character of his standing to be from a merchandising and licensing perspective.

And I imagine you can’t tell me too many specifics, but what’s coming up?
We’ve had a lot of interesting parties come to us – manufacturers, designers, retailers – wanting to put Bagpuss lines and product lines into stores. We’re on the verge of doing a deal with a high-street retailer for a line of homeware products that should launch in autumn/winter next year. We’re looking at new plush and new collectibles… But we’re determined to get it right! So we’re just finding the right pace to get him back to where he should be.

Brilliant. And one thing I wanted to pick up on earlier was Bagpuss’s sedentary nature… Because it’s right there, isn’t it, in the opening narration? Bagpuss and his friends are asleep until Emily says the magic words. So how do you solve that problem?
I’m glad you asked that because it’s very important. Firstly, nothing is off the table for Bagpuss. In fact, one of the things we highlighted in our initial pitch to the estate was that the original episodes tell stories of the extraordinary adventures Bagpuss has already had. If you remember the very first episode, for example, Bagpuss tells a story of his being an old sea captain who’s sailed the seven seas and met mermaids. Elsewhere, he’s travelled to the Highlands, met strange and unusual creatures… He’s been on adventure after adventure and lived a long, rich life…

Right! He’s entitled to be sleepy; he’s a really old, adventurous cat: the stories he tells are full of action!
You’ve got it! The biggest difference between Bagpuss and Paddington is that Paddington is a youthful bear cub… He’s at the beginning of his life and going on his very first adventure to London. But in the original show, Bagpuss is lying in the window asleep… He wakes up and tells stories about adventures past. And our proposal was that a big screen adventure would see him embark on a new adventure instead of just recounting a past tale… So we’ll be in the middle of the action, not talking about what happened.

Makes absolute sense. Presumably, though, there’s all sorts of skepticism about that among some quarters? “Ugh! Why can’t you leave things alone?” “This is so disrespectful to the original!”
Ha! Have you been reading the internet?! I think on a whole, fans are excited. Some are naturally protective and we love that about them. One of the things that was really important to Dan and the families was that this be seen as a sequel to the original series. So what we saw in the original stories happened and played out exactly as he says! We’re definitely not erasing their beloved childhood series – it’s beloved by us too!

If you watch those episodes, you’ll see that Bagpuss is somewhere between Uncle Albert in Only Fools and Horses and Nessa in Gavin and Stacey… They have these outlandish tales, but there might just be more truth in them than there sounds. And another one of our reference points is the Tim Burton film Big Fish. They’re all spinning yarns: really outlandish tales that are actually more true than you might think.

Shaggy-dog stories from a saggy-old cat! And as long as the sequel is an equal in terms of the values and intent, people should be happy! Beyond all these grand adventures, then, what are Bagpuss’s values?
Bagpuss is all about community, friendship, teamwork; finding what’s lost and fixing what’s broken. That’s what it was all about: how those friends would fix things so that they could – hopefully – reunite them with the original owners. Even though the episodes were set in the 1900s, and made in the 1970s, they’re all about repairing and recycling – things that are still very relevant in today’s world where we need to better look after the environment and look after the world for the next generation.

Now, we never saw the things that got fixed being reunited with their owners, but that doesn’t mean they weren’t. And we’ve had discussions about the role that Emily’s shop would’ve played at the centre of this community… Constantly finding and reuniting broken things with the owners who thought were lost forever. I think those are some of the core values that are still really important in today’s world and that fans hold dear.

Lovely! And you’ve made me wonder if Bagpuss is the spiritual forerunner of The Repair Shop!
Ha! I did say that in an interview with the BBC! But these are some of the values and we really do want to do it properly; we want to do it for a long time. This isn’t us saying, “Let’s make a movie and then move on.” In fact, it’s your thing… It’s an untapped brand with great characters, beloved IP and incredibly important values – but Bagpuss lives in the hearts and minds of so many people. And interestingly, I think he lives in the heart more at the moment… There’s definitely a lot of collective memory at play amongst those who remember him fondly.

Oh? In what way?
I think many people have a heartfelt memory of Bagpuss, but not everyone remembers the finer details. And that’s been interesting for us because we’ve generally had a fantastic reception to the announcement. Even a lot of the worst comments are variations of, “Please don’t mess this up!” which I think is a perfectly acceptable statement for a fan. But on the heels of something you said earlier, it’s fascinating to see that Bagpuss definitely triggers the Mandela Effect…

People misremember important details? Can you give me an example of that?
One good example came after we had some recent pictures of the Hospices of Hope mascot… Someone commented on Facebook: “You would never see Bagpuss standing up on two feet.”

Ah! Great example! Because in the very first episode…
In the very first episode, literally within the first ten minutes of the show, what do you see? Bagpuss, on one of his adventures, captaining a ship. He’s up on two feet in drawings that were done by one of the two creators, Peter Firmin. Then someone else said, “I just wish they’d do it in black and white, like the original…”

Hmmm. Was it ever in black and white?
No, but they would’ve had a black and white television, just like I did! So in some people’s hearts there are things about which they feel feverishly protective… Even though it’s the Mandela Effect. But that’s something we need to take in our stride. We’re making Bagpuss for fans old and new in a way that we believe is faithful to all the values and characters of the original at a pace befitting the format of a big adventure.

If you watch the new Paddington films, they have the same thing. Slow, considered and classic moments but also big-screen, adventure-movie moments. And just to go back to that very first episode… We see Bagpuss telling the story about being the captain of a ship, and how he was shipwrecked by a mermaid’s call! It’s a big, adventurous moment.

High adventure!
Right! But because of the way it was told, it’s still got a gentle, bedtime-story element to it. Ultimately, we just want every generation to fall in love with Bagpuss all around the world whether that’s rewatching the original series or discovering what comes next. Because I do see us as a foster family for Bagpuss. Fans need to know that we know him inside out and back to baggy-front. We didn’t create him, but it’s our job to keep him safe, to nurture him, to make him part of other people’s childhoods for years to come.

Fantastic! Thank you so much for talking to me about this, Michael. You’re very impressive; very passionate – you clearly love Bagpuss; you clearly know what you’re doing and it’s a joy to hear how you’re going to do it.