Hi guys, great to catch up! Let’s kick off with how you both found yourselves working with brands?
Kirsty Guthrie, Owner, KJG: Well David Hamilton – a friend of my father – had a company called Link Licensing. I came out of university, and David and Claire Derry were doing the licensing for Barbie at the time and also represented brands like Natural History Museum, Creature Comforts, Asterix and The Very Hungry Caterpillar. I went to work with them, so I went into licensing straight and fresh from university.

Maggy Harris, Director, BlueSkye Licensing: I did a side-ways move into licensing a little later in my career than Kirsty. My first proper rights related role was with Dorling Kindersley selling book rights. It was great fun and it gave me a detailed understanding of rights and the book business generally. They made a load of people redundant, including me, but my boss knew someone that was going on maternity leave at the Copyrights Company, so I went into that role. That’s where I started my licensing life, with classic book brands like Paddington Bear, Spot the Dog and Beatrix Potter and The Snowman.

“The use of design in licensing and the growing creativity in licensing has never been stronger, and it’s to be championed and welcomed.”

Can you recall your first licensing deal?
MH: It might have been a deal with Ravensburger for Spot the Dog puzzles. I worked with Sarah Stevens at Ravensburger on that, and I’m talking to her at the moment about another brand! That’s the great thing about this industry, it’s all very personal and cyclical. People get into this space and seem to stay in it!

KG: Mine was a Barbie sock deal with Samuel Eden. I did a Barbie cake deal after that; lots of my early deals were with Barbie.

Have you stayed working with certain types of brands? Or is working on a variety of different kinds of IP one of the perks of the job?
MH: I‘ve worked on all sorts!

KG: Me too, it’s been a real mix.

MH: I started in books, then art and design brands while I was at DRi – and that was at a time when nobody would’ve thought a greetings card could spawn a licensing programme, but Forever Friends was huge in the Nineties. And while I was at DRi I also worked on brands like Budweiser and Land Rover. At CPLG, Turtles was the blockbuster license du jour… When I later joined ITV, I worked with big TV brands. It’s come a long way since licensing revolved around kids’ toys and TV.

KG: Absolutely. I went to work at CPLG and worked on big entertainment brands like Star Wars Episode One: The Phantom Menace. That was the big one at the time released in 1999. We also had Godzilla, Spider-Man, Austin Powers movies, as well as evergreens such as the Mr Men, Pink Panther, Rupert Bear and The Beano!

I then worked at Universal Studios focusing on their movie schedule ranging from The Hulk, Cat in the Hat, Thunderbirds and King Kong movies and after that, I set up on my own company KJG Ltd and focused on art and design-led properties as well as brands like Rubik’s Cube and My Little Princess. Now, Maggy and I working on a variety of differing genre brands.

Yes, and there is a reason we’re speaking to you jointly! Talk us through how you guys work together?
MH: It seemed mad – in some ways – at the time, but during lockdown lots of smaller, grassroots IP related businesses being set up; mine, BlueSkye Licensing, included. Despite everything, there were opportunities. As many of us have known each other over many years, we were getting in touch, networking and found areas of collaboration.

There is a group called The Under Two’s Licensing Huddle (ie businesses with less than two employees) comprising around 50 or so people – like Kirsty and I – that are doing our own thing. We come together every now and again to share experiences, ask questions and chat! It’s a network of likeminded people there to help each other out both personally and professionally.

“Brands spend more time with designers now throughout the product creative process.”

I had already started working with Steve Richards at Dynamo, a design and creative services company. They’re my longest standing client and I love working with them. Then, over lockdown summer, I also started working across a number of different projects including digital gaming, tabletop games, greetings cards and publishing.

In September, I met up with Kirsty and we started talking about what we were both doing. We felt there was a gap in the market for providing licensing sales services to licensors and agencies who perhaps needed help covering the sales ground and bringing deals to the table.

We‘ve brought our shared resources and experiences together to offer a dual business proposition around sales. Our first clients were Trudi Hayward and Jean-Phillipe Randisi at bRAND-WARD on pre-school brands and Richard Pink’s team at Pink Key Licensing with food brands.

KG: Like Maggy, I also represent properties away from this pairing, like Snowtap – a great arts brand currently licensed with The Art File, Portico and Signature Gifts, but one other cultural institution brand that we work on together is the Frank Lloyd Wright Foundation.

We work with the US based team at Jewel Branding and Licensing on that one, supporting amazingly creative brand extension developments based around his architecture and lifestyle philosophy.

MH: We‘re the sales arm in this country; we’re not an agent – it‘s important to stress that!

The Under Two’s Licensing Huddle – sounds like a great thing to be a part of! And you mentioned Snowtap and The Frank Lloyd Wright Foundation; that’s quite an eclectic mix of brands.
KG: Yes, and we’re also working with the Ernest Hemingway Collection, Charlie Chaplin (Greenlight) and Kawaii brand Rilakkuma (with Sagoo France). Very different prospects again!

Why do you work well together?
KG: We get on really well. We didn’t know if it would work, but it’s working swimmingly. Maggy has strengths where I have weaknesses and vice versa.

MH: Kirsty is the best salesperson I’ve ever met; way better than I am! It works and there’s no real rhyme or reason to it.

KG: I have KJG and was working on my own with that agency. It’s quite insular. What’s been great working with Maggy is having someone to talk to and sound things out with. Having her support has been wonderful.

MH: We‘ve become firm friends. We have a good laugh!

Great stuff. Now, we like to talk about design here at Brands Untapped, so what do you guys see the role that great design plays in the success of a licensing programme?
MH: It’s indispensable. In the early days of licensing, there was a terrible trend of label-slapping. It worked well but people turned against it because retailers needed something different to stand out, and design has become far more important in people’s lives generally. The use of design in licensing and the growing creativity in licensing has never been stronger, and it’s to be championed and welcomed.

Some of the most creative collaborations often don’t make lots of money, but they are fantastic leaders and smart ways of marketing brands. People are being creative with their brands and are intelligently using design, which is great.

“Ideas tend to just come from out of nowhere. I’ll be chatting to someone, or walking the dogs, and creativity just arrives!”

KG: I agree 100%. Design in style guides has come on as well; that creativity is reflected there. Without great creative, licensing doesn’t work.

MH: Brands spend more time with designers now throughout the product creative process. I know we meet with the licensee design teams earlier in the process than was the norm years ago.

Before we wrap this up, are there any launches that have your fingerprints that highlight how creative you can be with brand extensions?
KG: I remember doing 3D lights for Rubik’s with Paladone. It took a lot of meetings between me, Paladone and Seven Towns, and we ended up with a really cool product. You could twist it too, so it was a playable, light up Cube.

A more recent one would be the Snowtap greetings cards that have gone down a storm in Barnes & Noble in the USA and are about to go in-store with the majors here in the UK. They’re beautiful cards and designs and are new into licensing, so it’s been great to get them some lovely deals.

MH: One of the deals I’m working on at the moment with the book Prisoners of Geography springs to mind! I can’t say too much about it, but I think it stands out because it’s not a brand that seems an obvious fit for licensing. It comes back to what we were saying about great design, because the book’s maps are stand-alone beautiful as well as being factual and fun and that’s where the licensing potential derives.

Finally, how do you guys fuel your creativity?
KG: Ideas tend to just come from out of nowhere. I’ll be chatting to someone, or walking the dogs, and creativity just arrives! I don’t ever really sit down and say “right, I’m going to be creative now”. I would say though, chatting with Mags helps to get the ideas flowing for sure.

MH: Getting out and about helps, especially going into retailers and seeing what’s out there. The same goes for reading the trade press and Linkedin. I also find ideas usually arrive after you’ve switched off for a bit.

Absolutely. Guys, this has been fun; a huge thanks again for making the time.

The post BlueSkye’s Maggy Harris and KJG’s Kirsty Guthrie on creativity, collaboration and The Under Two’s Licensing Huddle appeared first on Brands Untapped.

Excluding Ascot and Royal Ascot – as licensing for these has already been developed over the last five years by IMG – do famous racecourses, race meetings and racing stable brands have new or incremental licensing opportunities and if so into what categories?

As an inexpert punter, horse racing has made a lasting impression on me on a few memorable occasions.

The first – and by far most memorable – was as part of a mate’s stag do at Glorious Goodwood, during my equally memorable days at CPL. A certain Mr Ian Downes – tipster to the stars and uninitiated – provided tips for each race on a seven-race card. Despite several of the assembled fools and idiots taking a turn at the tipster hat, I managed to convince each of them that “my mate Ian knows about the gee-gees” and passed on the name of the “dead cert” for each race.

Despite a long day and a long night – a very long night – in Brighton, the kitty never ran dry… That’s how well we did. Thanks Ian!

Your esteemed industry colleagues Kirsty Guthrie and Hannah Stevens will outline what product categories and opportunities they see from their own perspectives in a moment. My initial focus in scoping the opportunity is on the value and numbers in horse racing, which are attractive stats. The sport clearly has an incredibly passionate and engaged audience.

For ‘incredibly passionate and engaged’ read: they attend live events, live and breathe it and literally study the past, present and future of the sport. Also, and perhaps crucially, they invest in the sport in the form of betting; from modest weekly punts, to massive accas, to a little flutter on The National every year.

Horse-racing is not only financially valuable in the UK, but it may surprise you to know that it is in fact the UK’s second most popular sport, behind football.

Approximately six million people attend horse-racing events each year, with 40% of them being women. The other layman’s observation one could also make is of course, that the demographics cover all of the population. And I do mean all, from Her Majesty onwards.

So, like any sports L&M programme, the ideal approach should be to cater for the whole spectrum of fans and spectators, from volume fan merchandise, to unique on-site event items, premium products and a relevant mixture of licensed co-brands (paid for) and licensed collabs (equity share), once the programme begins to mature.

Over to Hannah and Kirsty…

Hannah Stevens, Head of Retail and Sport, The Point.1888

When it comes to sports licensing, the time is certainly now.

Having worked on two of the greatest sports events for the UK during this pandemic – Team GB for the Tokyo Olympics, as well as The British and Irish Lions for the South Africa tour – you can certainly see that the UK customer is more ready to enjoy sport than ever.

Lockdown and the lack of togetherness has provided a real want and need for products that give customers a slice of friendship, memories, and an opportunity to enjoy their favourite event in the comfort of their own home. Horse Racing is no different!

We are so used to seeing the warm photos of groups together enjoying a day together at Cheltenham, Ascot, Aintree and more. Licensing can certainly have a part to play in bringing that home.

Within the licensing space, there is certainly an opportunity for racecourses, race meetings and stable brands to thrive

Categories to enable a slice of the day within FMCG include picnic hampers, champagne collaborations, limited runs of strawberries and cream exclusive to a retailer and chocolate deals. Of course, publishing within sports allows fans a real lookback through the history of the sport and will always provide a real insight into the stories behind these incredible racecourses.

A real USP market that famous racecourses can capitalise on is the tailored market. It’s a category that has suffered during this pandemic, but there’s potential to launch beautiful collections for the Ladies Day weekends that so many are desperate to enjoy at racecourses across the UK. With the return to events and back to work, this could be a really nice opportunity for these brands to capitalise.

Within the E-sports and apps space, many sports are booming and it’s certainly one to watch for the horse racing world.

Let’s not forget collaborations with other brands. Goodwood is a perfect example. It’s a truly fantastic home for multiple sports – is there an opportunity to partner together? Could there be a way to bring the whole family and all their sports together in one collection? Our British and Irish Lions collection with golf brand Titleist united two sports in a way that only strengthened the brand love and special nature of the products

As a final note, the really positive message for licensing horse racing is the inclusivity the sport provides. With Rachael Blackmore as the first female jockey to win the Grand National, horse racing truly has the opportunity to drive the message of inspiration for everyone to be a part of the brand – and provide a space for all to compete on equal terms!

Kirsty Guthrie, Licensing Agent/Consultant, KJG Ltd

Looking out my patio doors to the back of my garden, I’m watching some yearlings frolic and fresh about in Cheveley Park Stud wondering if they will be future champions akin to the likes of Enable, Workforce, Envoi Allen, Allaho, Stradivarius, A Plus Tard and many more – and whether it be on the flats or the jumps!

I’m surrounded by various Studs (Godolphin, Banstead Manor – Frankel!) and professional jockeys… Ryan Moore, William Buick, James Doyle and Frankie Dettori, no less, all live in my village! Yes, I am lucky to be living and breathing all things that are horse racing here at Newmarket HQ.

We have two racecourses here in Newmarket. The July Course famous for The July Cup and The Rowley Mile infamous for The Guineas Festival – all champion races. Our courses are open March till October and during non-Covid times are jam packed full of racegoers and enthusiasts.

The Jockey Club HQ is situated in Newmarket. There you will find a beautiful gift shop that sells horse racing memorabilia in Palace House. Adjacent to it is a Horse Racing Museum fit for a king!

The Jockey Club also owns many racecourses up and down the country; Newmarket, Cheltenham, Epsom to name a few. This is where it gets exciting.

Products such as baseball caps, scarves, ceramics, cushions, calendars, stationery, luggage, jackets, umbrellas, gilets, tea towels, keyrings – the list goes on! – are all appropriate licensed products for the horse racing industry.

Tattersalls have their own shop selling bespoke products too. A bestseller this year was the face mask and I have one!

There is a massive opportunity to sell licensed products as per the above at the Jockey Club venues up and down the country. It doesn’t matter where you are from in the UK or elsewhere in the world, you will follow a horse and its owners’ colours – and this horse will have many an outing at various racecourses up and down the country over its racing life.

There really is an untapped opportunity to license more branded merchandise and memorabilia of the sport. Watch this space, I may have backed a winner here!

As Kirsty and Hannah have mentioned above, there should be scope for core categories, retail exclusives and endemic categories and brands, be they as collaborations or licensed co-brands.

In terms of core assets, horse-racing boasts famous horses and racecourses that are as much household names as any Premier League football club and its players. The racing aficionado is probably as loyal to their stable or jockey’s colours as any football fan is to their club colours or shirt – and potentially wealthier on some days and poorer on others!

I would aim to add luxury items for the likes of Godolphin, in the vein of core equestrian items like the dressage saddles licensed by Harry Dabbs from Jaguar or limited-edition writing instruments such as Montegrappa’s F1 Seventy.

I’d hope there is also opportunity for local or regional co-brands to appeal to the horse-racing fraternity. Kirsty would know these better than me, but I remember the relevance of the Harris Tweed x Ryder Cup collections including New Era caps and accessory bags at Gleneagles in 2014.

From my experience of acquiring the rights and initiating the licensing programme for Ascot/Royal Ascot back in 2016, I would only caution that like many consumers, sports fans may need time to change their habits at annual events and brands may need time to cultivate their interest and investment.

It’s therefore very pleasing to now see brands we seeded conversations with back then, like Radley, Christy and Charbonnel & Walker, appointed as licensed partners of perhaps the most famous course in the world, founded by Queen Anne in 1711.

The post Talking Brands: Horse racing has a huge following, but does it have the legs to make it in licensing? appeared first on Brands Untapped.